« Could NSW be facing a second Legislative Council election? | Main
April 08, 2015
Legislative Council Count Updates
1pm 12 April – My latest estimates are below. The check count has reached about 70% and my estimate is based on combining the initial count of ticket votes with the percentages from the progressive count of below the line votes. There are currently 50,827 below the line votes counted of my estimate of 80,000 below the line votes.
Using the progressive below the line party percentages, my current estimates are –
- Coalition still slipping, now on 9.3953 quotas, electing nine but probably falling short on the tenth seat
- Labor 6.8627 quotas, electing seven members.
- Greens rising to 2.1832 quotas, electing two members with 0.1832 quotas distributed as preferences
- Shooters and Fishers on 0.8441 quotas and electing one member
- Christian Democrats on 0.6247 quotas and electing one member
- No Land Tax rising to 0.4109 quotas
- Animal Justice Party on 0.3864 quotas.
So the first 20 seats are clear, 9 Coalition, 7 Labor, 2 Greens and one each for the Shooters and Fishers Party and the Christian Democratic Party.
Nine seats for the Coalition is enough with its 11 continuing seats plus two Christian Democrats to allow the government to negotiate passage of legislation including electricity privatisation.
The race for the 21st seat remains close. On my estimates No Land Tax have 80,072 votes, the tenth Liberal candidate 77,037 and Animal Justice 75,312. No Land Tax is favoured to win the final seat.
The Greens have a surplus of around 35,000 votes, but flows between parties of more than 10% are unusual in the NSW Legislative Council system. Green preference may favour Animal Justice, but not by enough to put them ahead of No Land Tax.
If there are more than 80,000 BTL votes then No Land Tax will be further advantaged. Less than 80,000 the race for the final seat becomes much closer.
Earlier comments below
2pm 11 April – My latest estimates are below. They are based on using the initial count totals on the NSWEC website as the likely ticket vote totals. I am then using the progressive check count of below the line totals to work out what percentage of first preference BTL votes each party will receive. There are currently 44,000 BTL votes counted and I am estimating based on there being around 80,000 BTL votes at the end of the count.
The current estimates are –
- Coalition slipping to 9.3960 quotas, electing nine but probably falling short on the tenth seat
- Labor 6.8621 quotas, electing seven members.
- Greens rising to 2.1847 quotas, electing two members with 0.1847 quotas distributed as preferences
- Shooters and Fishers on 0.8433 quotas and electing one member
- Christian Democrats on 0.6247 quotas and electing one member
- No Land Tax rising to 0.4121 quotas
- Animal Justice Party on 0.3868 quotas.
So the first 20 seats are clear, 9 Coalition, 7 Labor, 2 Greens and one each for the Shooters and Fishers Party and the Christian Democratic Party.
Nine seats for the Coalition is enough with its 11 continuing seats plus two Christian Democrats to allow the government to negotiate passage of legislation including electricity privatisation.
The race for the 21st seat remains close. On my estimates No Land Tax have 80,312 votes, the tenth Liberal candidate 77,172 and Animal Justice 75,375. No Land Tax is favoured to win the final seat.
The Greens have a surplus of around 35,000 votes, but flows between parties of more than 10% are unusual in the NSW Legislative Council system. Green preference may favour Animal Justice, but not by enough to put them ahead of No Land Tax.
The Coalition ticket vote on the progressive check count is currently about 0.6% above the initial count total which suggests the Coalition vote will continue to fall.
If there are more than 80,000 BTL votes then No Land Tax will be further advantaged.
10am 10 April – My estimates were based on about 80,000 below the line votes. I’ve been informed the number might be much higher, but I’ve questioned that information. If the figure is higher, and the current trend in BTL votes continues, then No Land Tax will win the final position relatively easily and the tenth Liberal candidate will finish behind both No Land Tax and Animal Justice.
In 2011 there were around 91,500 BTL votes, a rate of 2.2%. The current NSWEC figures indicate a BTL rate of 1.7% which would indicate the number of BTL votes should be down on 2011, not substantially up.
7pm 9 April – The initial counts are now complete and the Coalition total is 9.50 quotas. However, having re-assessed the NSWEC data, it now appears that the below the line vote is 1.7% rather than my initial estimate of 1.2%. If this higher figure is correct, then my current projection has the tenth Liberal candidate falling behind No Land Tax. My new estimates based on this higher rate of below the line voting is –
- Coalition slipping to 9.4069 quotas, electing nine with the tenth candidate still in the race
- Labor 6.8655 quotas, electing seven members.
- Greens rising to 2.1810 quotas, electing two members with 0.1810 quotas distributed as preferences
- Shooters and Fishers on 0.8428 quotas and electing one member
- Christian Democrats on 0.6226 quotas and electing one member
- No Land Tax rising to 0.4109 quotas
- Animal Justice Party on 0.3861 quotas.
At some point in the count six candidates will remain to fill four vacancies. These candidates will be from the Coalition, Labor, Shooters and Fishers, Christian Democrats, No Land Tax and the Animal Justice Party.
It is unlikely that party preferences will have much impact, except for Green preferences which may flow towards Animal Justice.
With six candidates remaining, and assuming no change in order, Animal Justice would be excluded, and No Land Tax would probably win the last seat. If Animal Justice pass either No Land Tax or the tenth Liberal candidate, then the last seat is between Animal Justice and No Land Tax.
There is more counting to come, but the 21st seat is now looking much more in doubt than it was previously.
Amongst BTL votes, No Land Tax is polling 7.4% and the Coalition 19.4%. That’s why my current projection has No Land tax increasing its vote and the Coalition vote falling. If the BTL rate continues at 1.7% then the last seat is a real toss up with No Land Tax having improved its position. It would also make any Court of Disputed Returns case much more complex.
My prediction at the moment is that we will not know who wins the last seat until the button is pressed to distribute preferences.
Earlier comments below.
5pm 9 April – The Liberal lead continues to narrow as the final declaration votes are entered. My current projected quotas are –
- Coalition slipping to 9.46 quotas, electing nine and probably still leading to elect a tenth member
- Labor 6.88 quotas, electing seven members.
- Greens rising to 2.16 quotas, electing two members with 0.16 quotas distributed as preferences
- Shooters and Fishers on 0.84 quotas and electing one member
- Christian Democrats on 0.62 quotas and electing one member
- No Land Tax rising to 0.40 quotas
- Animal Justice Party on 0.38 quotas.
Earlier comments below.
6:30pm 8 April – Using the initial count of ticket (above the line) votes that can be found at this link, and mixing these figures with preliminary tallies of below the line votes, the Legislative Council count will continue to see a decline in the Coalition vote.
The first below the line figures have the Coalition on 9.9 quotas, which is much higher than the current group totals. I do not have knowledge of which electorates are included, but it clearly overstates the Coalition’s vote.
On the current party totals at the above link, and factoring in the first below the line numbers, I am projecting the following final quotas
- Coalition slipping to 9.48 quotas, electing nine and probably a tenth member
- Labor 6.89 quotas, electing seven members.
- Greens rising to 2.15 quotas, electing two members with 0.15 quotas distributed as preferences
- Shooters and Fishers on 0.83 quotas and electing one member
- Christian Democrats on 0.62 quotas and electing one member
- No Land Tax rising to 0.40 quotas
- Animal Justice Party on 0.38 quotas.
Of the data released, the below the line vote rate is 1.1%, down on the 2.2% in 2011. Nearly a third of below the line votes in 2011 were for Independents Pauline Hanson and John Hatton, both of whom had much greater pulling power than any party at the 2015 election. The 2015 ballot paper was also longer than the 2011 ballot paper and had an additional 83 candidates.
The Liberal/National below the line rate is the lowest at 0.5%, Labor 0.8%, the Greens 2.7%, Christian Democrats 2.5%, Shooters and Fishers 1.3%, Animal Justice 2.1% and No Land Tax 4.7%.
Of all below the line votes, the Liberal/National Parties are polling only 19.4%, Labor 21.0%, the Greens 22.4% and No Land Tax 8.1%. That is why the Green and No Land Tax vote is rising with below the line votes and the Liberal/National vote is falling.
If these trends hold up, there may be enough Green preferences to get Animal Justice ahead of No Land Tax, but not enough to close the gap on the Liberal/National group.
The one caveat on this is that the totals are still short of many Absent votes, and these may yet cause a further decline in the Liberal/National total.
As I explained in this post this morning, the Animal Justice party needs to get the gap between it and the tenth Liberal candidate down under 700 votes, at the outside about 1,000 votes. If the gap is wider than this, it is unlikely that the Court of Disputed Returns would judge the iVote error as enough to affect the result of the election.
With the quota being about 190,000 votes, this means the quota gap at the end of the count would have to be under 0.005, or under 0.024% of the vote. At the moment the result does not look that close and the Coalition would be favoured to win the final seat.
Why do we persist with this quota system for the Legislative Council and the Senate? Why not simply allow each voter to vote for the number of candidates that the LC or Senate is to elect? So, for the Senate, each voter from each state votes for 12 candidates. (each voter from each territory votes for 2 ). For the NSW LC each voter would vote for 21 (half) or 42 (full). The 12 senate candidates or the 21/42 LC candidates with the highest number of votes are elected. fair and simple.
COMMENT: What you are describing is block system, a voting method that became useless as soon as formalised parties appeared. It used to result in one party winning all vacancies. It was abandoned for the Senate in 1919, though an equivalent preferential bot non-quota system was used until 1949. So after the 1946 election the Chifey government had a majority of 33-3. What would be the point of having a Senate if it could end up with one party having a 76-0 majority. Or in the case of the Scullin government in 1929 or Cook government in 1913, have a government facing a massive opposition majority in the Senate.
Posted by: JOHN PRITCHARD | April 08, 2015 at 07:14 PM
Antony, great coverage and commentary as usual.
Much of the calculation of where the AJP will end up relies on predictions of how many Green (and other minor party, e.g. No Parking Meters, Bicycles, VE) voters preference them. What history do we have to rely on about this percentage?
You have indicated you expect it will be less than 50% following the Greens HTV. Why?
COMMENT: Because in the past barely 25% of Green voters have indicated any upper house preference, meaning individual flows are even weaker. I don’t expect that rate to more than double at the 2015 election.
I did some analysis of what preferences existed at the 2011 election in the following post. http://blogs.abc.net.au/antonygreen/2011/08/measuring-the-performance-of-the-new-nsw-legislative-council-electoral-system.html
Overall at past elections, as the last candidate of each party was excluded, 80-85% of preferences exhausted. I don’t expect that rate to be much different in 2015.
Posted by: Bruce Poon | April 09, 2015 at 09:22 AM
Off topic: It seems to me electing someone for an eight-year term on a statewide “list” isn’t very democratic or accountable no matter who wins.
After Victoria went to an election tying the whole of the Legislative Council to the term of the of the Legislative Assembly, using STV to vote for five MLCs each in eight districts, just as Western Australia elects six MLCs each in six districts, has New South Wales or South Australia ever considered switching to a similar model as Victoria and Western Australia have?
Has there been any move to establish an elected LC in Queensland of late?
Your analysis is appreciated by professional and amateur psephologists everywhere.
COMMENT: Queensland requires a referendum to re-create a Legislative Council. NSW and South Australia would both require referendums to end the staggered terms. South Australia has discussed the subject without getting anywhere. NSW moved from four rotations to three in 1978 by referendum, and three rotations to two in 1991 by referendum. There has been no proposal yet to go further with change.
Posted by: Dan W. | April 09, 2015 at 10:02 AM
Antony, where have the preliminary BTL figures come from? I can’t find them on the NSWEC website.
COMMENT: Some data is now on the website.
Posted by: Ben Raue | April 09, 2015 at 11:26 AM
Hi Antony,
Great information however I have a question slightly off topic. Penny Sharp ran for a lower house seat and was defeated. How can she now get a seat in the upper house?
COMMENT: Both Penny Sharpe and Steve Whan resigned from Legislative Council seats that did not face election on March 28. When the new parliament sits, both vacancies have to be filled. There is nothing to stop Sharpe being re-appointed to the vacancy created by her resignation.
This has happened in the past. Fred Nile resigned from the Council in 2004 to contest the Senate. When he was unsuccessful he was re-appointed to the vacancy his resignation created.
Posted by: Graham Ianson | April 09, 2015 at 05:38 PM
If there was to be a re-run of the LC election, due to this (minor error), what would it cost the State of NSW?
COMMENT: A lot!
Posted by: Michael Cox | April 09, 2015 at 09:33 PM
It seems very strange that NLT would be polling at 7.4% in BTL votes? Why would the vote for NLT be over 4 times higher BTL, especially when their people handing out on polling day were advocating a vote 1 above the line? Do Donkey Voters favour BTL?
COMMENT: The same happened in 2007 when there was an unnamed group in Column A. The group had easily the highest rate of below the line voting.
Posted by: Jack | April 10, 2015 at 10:44 AM
While I fully get the concerns of the parties in relation to missing out as a result of the missing squares abobove the line on the ballot paper . Is there not a requirement that they check it themselves to see that all is correct beofre it is printed/uploaded?
If not why not. Sounds a bit like sour grapes to me and the cost – absolutely astronomical – I am amazed at the number of people that actutally think that the people crossong out namnes and running the election across the state are VOLUNTEERS. Which of course they are not!
COMMENT: The requirement is on the electoral commission to correctly publish ballot papers, not the candidates and parties.
Posted by: Jason | April 11, 2015 at 01:36 PM
Hi Antony,
If No Land Tax wins the final seat would the Animal Justice Party be in a position to request a re-run election?
COMMENT: In my view, only if the gap between the two parties is under 700 will the Animal Justice Party have a case. Read my previous post which still applies in part even if the No Land Tax party now outpolls the tenth Liberal. http://blogs.abc.net.au/antonygreen/2015/04/could-nsw-be-facing-a-second-legislative-council-election.html
Posted by: Sophie | April 11, 2015 at 09:12 PM
Hi Antony. Great info. You have in your article Labor as getting 7 Upper House seats. The last I heard, Labor was in line for 8. I assume that the 1 less seat is because of BTL voting? Furthermore, does this mean that Courtney Houssos misses out?
COMMENT: I don’t know where you heard that information. The Labor vote has never been above 7 quotas in the time I’ve been following it.
Posted by: Daniel | April 11, 2015 at 11:56 PM